Copper frame are very sturdy and machine well and take the best patina over time. However, to choose the best knife for you must consider all the properties, including toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. Hi Jimmie, thanks for your comments. 12C27 steel is extremely popular in the US knife market for its high hardness, high wear resistance, and great corrosion resistance. Generally this is code for difficulty in abrading away steel. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. Note just because a blade is made from the premium or high-end steels listed above does not automatically mean its better than the lesser steels. With conventional steels this limited vanadium additions to about 4-5%, and this was greatly expanded when powder metallurgy was developed. The edge retention and ease of sharpening have been what we expect with D2. So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. The blackwashed D2 steel blade of the Kershaw Cannonball offers pretty good corrosion resistance for D2. The vivid patterns visible in Damascus steel come from the acid etching process in a ferric chloride solution. So you can estimate how much a change in hardness would affect edge retention by following the slope of those lines. The 8Cr13MoV vs D2 debate. Both of those things are no longer an issue as I now have way too many articles and a book. This guide explains important features to consider when buying a new knife for the outdoors. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. The heat treatment techniques used by the manufacturer as well as the design of the blade itself play a huge role in the ultimate outcome of knife performance! High wear resistance is not particularly necessary when only performing chopping, and its good ease in sharpening helps when having to restore the edges. Its a costly and challenging process, but it makes extremely fine-grained steels, some of the best for knives, and makes some processes that were previously impossible a reality. You showed some pictures in this article of the effect on what we might call "effective toughness" of thinner edge angles vs thicker edges in the same steel at the same hardness. In addition, According to Sandvik, 14C28N steel is easy to work on, reducing production costs and hence affordable knives. Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. 14C28N knives will handle challenging and demanding applications without chipping, cracking, or breaking. Like 154CM, its a good compromise between all three steel attributes. With recommended hardness range of 55-62 HRC; the 14C28N is great for knife applications which place very high demands on edge sharpness, edge stability and corrosion resistance such as chefs knives, hunting knife, pocket knives and fishing knives. But among the steels youll find at Cabelas and the like, this is a pretty good choice. If I made some plane irons from AEB-L at 63 Rc (where its still tougher than 1095 at 59-60 Rc, the standard vintage steel in plane irons), could I drop my sharpening angle from 30-35 to 25? Anthony Sculimbrene authors the blog EverydayCommentary.com. I think you wrote an article a bit ago on CTS-XHP and concluded that like D2 and ZDP-189 it wasnt really stainless (although stainless is a somewhat arbitrary line). CPM 4V Unfortunately a high amount of it decreases strength. I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. Now 14c28n is IMO the best budget steel out there. This is a non-powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. It boasts an incredible ability to continue cutting long after it seems dull. And its not made of steel. . Theres also a line of green triangles a bit below that. So, it is quite harder than most other steel variants and retains its edge sharp for a long period. Maxamets hardness results in incredible edge retention and a nightmarish sharpening and machining experience. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and can't go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. Corrosion Resistance: D2 steel has a higher chromium content than 8Cr13MoV, which makes it better at resisting corrosion and wear. CPM-3V is a powder metallurgy contender in this category. The chart below has dotted lines which indicate the average effect of hardness for any given steel. 14C28N steel holds good hardness. That old pine in particular is some crazy hard stuff. At the end of the article I gave a list of reasons why I hadnt made my own ratings chart, two big reasons were: 1) I didnt yet have articles explaining what edge retention and toughness even is (this was early on in Knife Steel Nerds), 2) I didnt have good experimental numbers on many steels. It can withstand a lot of wear and tear. Also how did you arrive at the edge retention & toughness numbers for 8cr13mov and for BD1N toughness? 14C28N VS Steel.
Ruike Sandvik 14c28n vs D2 : r/knives - reddit Its not bad, but you can find better in the market at the same price. and get better and longer-lasting performance? I have two quick questions, I personally don`t care about stainless (sic! Steels without these attributes are much less costly. Is that regression line (or other trend line?) Nitro V is also significantly cheaper than many other steels with this level of performance. Being stainless is not an on or off property, and some stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion than others. The most traditional models of pocket knives have different parts, such as the handle and cutting performance. and our
9cr18MOV or D2? | BladeForums.com That is professionaly popular such as the Japanese designation SKD11, Uddeholm Sverker 21, German designation 1.2379, Hitachi SLD and others. If you want to learn more about a specific steel, you can click it in the sorted listings below. I dipped each in lemon juice and left in open air and tested after 30, 100, and 300 minutes, dipping in lemon juice again each time. 440C steel With steels that have a small amount of carbide the size of the carbides can be kept small through processing (see the AEB-L micrograph earlier in the article). However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. They differ little in composition and treatment. The steel falls under the Sandvik series of steels and makes one of the 7 steel grades in this family including 12C27M, 14C28N, 13C26, and others. BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. . AR-RPM9 I was just comparing AEB-L and 14c28n to decide which steel to get for my next knife project and although 14c28n seems to be a bit more abrasion resistant, my primary goal is toughness and edge stability. S90V
D2 Leek vs. 14C28N Random Leek | BladeForums.com The Complete Guide to Knife and Tool Steels - Heinnie Haynes A few steels have been added since such as MagnaCut and M398. But which? The ratings I have are for an optimal heat treatment. s30v High Speed steels are a subset that have significant additions of Mo and/or W that makes them resist softening when they are used for machining operations. Is this at the same hardness? If you are a newbie, sharpening D2 knives will be a struggle, but it is doable with practice and the right sharpening tools. Below shows a comparison of carbide structure between D2 and CPM-D2, and then toughness measurements between the conventional and PM versions of CruWear, D2, and 154CM. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. Type 8Cr, the more common formulation, is worse than AUS-8: a little more prone to corrosion and not quite as hard. Hes already done a three part series on cryogenic treatment: Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! That says to me theres a measurable abrasive quality to wood for sure. Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. And while youll find it mostly in expensive knives, quite a few approachable M390 blades exist. 14c28n vs. AUS-8 Steel Find your right answers here! I have a bachelor's degree in Mechanical engineering with a specialization in material science. Most low alloy tool steels and carbon steels also have fine carbide structures without powder metallurgy processing. Lots of information is still specific to this article, however. 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. If you are a newbie to steel knives and the differences are not yet clear, come with us to the next section as we look into each knifes characteristics, pros, and cons. Diving into the pool of knife personalization possibilities is a fantastic way to fend off the post-knife-buy blues. On the spreadsheet, youve grouped AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV. The edge retention numbers are normalized to the hardness of the closest toughness test. Should have a first draft by the end of next week. If you shop for knives based strictly on steel, you might be disappointed. The brand designed it as a carbide replacement. To choose the best knife for you between the 14C28N and the D2, look at the steel properties and ensure that they suit your knife needs and lifestyle. There has been some internet controversy over the grinding and heat treat of this steel. Liquid steel is sprayed through a tiny nozzle, solidifying into a powder. But as the market has grown and newer steels have come out, it has fallen in price and prestige. imo o lot depends on how the blade is sharpened. This is an American-made powder steel produced by Crucible and developed specifically for knives with the aid of the knife guru Chris Reeve (maker of the vaunted Sebenza, among other gems).
14C28N vs D2: Which Steel Is Better? - Knifeful.com Are you familiar with anything similar on the metallurgy/knife steel side of things? 1.
Quick-reference guide: Know your knife steels - KnivesShipFree D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. The value being slightly different doesnt mean its an outlier or measurement error. There is a powder form, CPM-D2, and PSF27 is also very chemically similar. I couldnt find much on 5160 steel and from a knife makers point of view if you are saying youre the preferred supplier of special ops than I dont understand this choice in knife steel. Coarse-carbide tool steel grades. That provides 14% Chromium and offers excellent corrosion resistance. CN Vs VG-10 The Japanese steel, VG10 offers slightly higher edge retention but has the same level of hardness as 14C28N. Corrosion on knife steels most usually takes the form of rust, patina, and staining. Different heat treats have emerged over the years, but one has risen to the top as the best:Bob Doziers D2. And easy to sharpen in our experience; and that will get an excellent razor edge that lasts for a reasonable price of time. So presumably, wear resistance would be in the 3.5-4 range and toughness in the 5.5-6 range. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? If the properties of a knife meet your knife needs and it has the above characteristics, then it qualifies as a quality knife. Its a good balance between all three attributes, being relatively hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. They are usually chosen for their looks rather than performance. HA! It should get an ultra-sharp edge for easy cutting, hold the edge for long for easy maintenance, and have a sturdy and ergonomic handle for comfort and to prevent accidents. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. You also reported 8.6 for 440A in that post, compared to 8.5 in this post. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. Working closely with our factory the heat treating of this steel has been perfected resulting in excellent performance for the price. Edge retention is the ability of a knife to maintain cutting ability during cutting. 14C28N knives are better than D2 knives in corrosion resistance. The maximum edge retention available in this group is not particularly high because most of the wear resistance comes from iron carbide, also called cementite, which is the softest of the different carbide types. Its not a regression line, it is just a line through the best steels. The stainless steel rating. Still looking forward to magnacut making it into high volume production and use. 14C28N VS D2 Attributes: 14c28n: D2 . This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. Below shows Vanax tempered at 400F on the left and 1000F on the right after 1% saltwater for 24 hours: There are many other ways in which knife steel performance can be reduced through heat treatment but I cant cover them all in this article so hopefully these illustrative examples will be enough. I see tables that compare Toughness,Edge Retention,Corrosion Resistance. It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. If you purchase this types of knife, without any hassle you can easily re-sharpening. However, it is not really known how many different companies are making 8Cr13MoV (or at least I dont know), it could be that it is one manufacturer that is dominating the market. All Rights Reserved. Have you tested K390 sufficiently to be able to rate it? 14C28N Vs D2 .
Bohler N690Co Stainless Steel: Is N690 a Good Knife Steel? - KnifeGuides However, it can be somewhat complicated because an edge can dull from many causes wear, micro-chipping, deformation, or corrosion. Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? Other factors include how thick your edge is, how dull your knife was at the start, the nature of the heat treatment, and what youre using to sharpen your knife. Some steels are more difficult to manufacture for the steel company or have more expensive alloying elements so the cost is increased. But it would be my recommendation for applications requiring extreme corrosion resistance. Is that accurate? The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. On the other hand, edge stability in terms of micro chipping and edge folding is also good. M390 Steel ratings are not about ranking steels in terms of what is better than another, but understanding the different balances such as toughness vs edge retention. D2 knives offer higher edge retention than 14C28N knives, which is attributed to the high carbon elements and hardness of D2. Most edge retention tests isolate wear resistance or how long it takes abrasives to dull your edge in whatever youre cutting. Oh, thats great, thanks. I did a test with knives in 440A (stainless), D2 (high alloy steel with some corrosion resistance), and 1095 (no corrosion resistance). Developed by New Jersey Steel Baron, Nitro V is a non-powder steel marketed as an enhanced version of AEB-L. Nitro V, as its name indicates, adds nitrogen to AEB-Ls formula to make the steel even more corrosion-resistant. That comes with an excellent return of experience that makes it ideal for the manufacturer of outdoor and tactical knife blades. H1 This is a powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. Then you can compare 14c28n vs d2, and we hope you will find the right one for your needs. My test is for comparing different steels, not necessarily for a go/no go test for saltwater applications. GiantMouse Vox/Anso ACE Iona Liner Lock Knife, Muley Freaks Erik Van Woerkom Charged With Felony Possession of Trophy Mule Deer, The Biggest Improvement to My Camp Kitchen Is a Mini Pizza Oven (But Not for Pizza), Propane Traeger, Moosejaw Coolers, Hybrid HOKAs, Adventure Chess, and More Emerging Gear, Avalanche Outside British Columbia Resort Buries 10, Kills 3 Heli-Skiers, Netflix Unveils First Trailer for Tour de France Series. There you said 7.6 for 420HC. 14C28N is the highest-selling steel of Sandvik, a Swedish steel company. The table shows combinations of knife steel properties for different classes of steel. 8am-5pm Saturday. In that case the difficulty in sharpening would be the inverse of the edge retention rating. Used in knives since at least World War II, 1095 performance varies considerably with an abundance of tweaks in the recipe and heat treat. Fix-It Sticks Compact Ratcheting Multi-Tool Review, Toughness, Wear Resistance, Corrosion Resistance.
Compare 20 Grades of Knife Steel - ThoughtCo The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). On the positive side, they are very easy to forge and grind. This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. Its probably in between Vanadis 8 and 10V. Softer steel usually forms larger burrs and they are more difficult to deburr. Divers, sailors, and anglers need knives that will resist corrosion above all else. This does not predict which knife will cut longer or be more resistant to chipping. Keeping in mind that I have a well rounded Set of sharpening skills. first there might have been some annealing going on (even if its was a microscopic level) and the steels might have reacted differently. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Different companies can vary some between each other making the same product, while a single company is going to be more consistent. D2 is not a bad steel, but it has been around a long time and is somewhat mundane by current standards. Here is the article by Larrin on 48 steels. nevertheles its importand to keep in mind what exactly is going on there (abrasive plastic media, loss of most of cutting ability during the first few strokes etc.). you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. Obviously Ill let you check the manuscript prior to publication. the following is not a critique, just a few thoughts to maybe put the relationships into a wider perspective and point to additional dimensions. But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. Ease of Sharpening: One advantage of 8Cr13MoV is that it is easier to sharpen than D2 steel. Its hard to imagine a more rust-inducing environment than saltwater and fish guts. 2) you do not go into the sharpening in much detail. Crucible intends SPY27 to be good all-around knife steel.
Sandvik 14C28N Knife Steel Review: Is This a Good Knife? Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). Typically an increase in corrosion resistance means a reduction in potential hardness for a given steel. 14C28N steel is as a result of a more corrosion resistant version of the 13C26 steel. I've heard d2 is miles better and i dont want to pay 90 for the p135 and get a significantly inferior blade to paying 110 for the D2 Rat.
It is among the best steel that will offer exceptional toughness while still maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. I feel like it sharpens as easy as D2. Check out theGiantMouse Vox/Anso ACE Iona Liner Lock Knife at $99, for example. Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? How do its properties compare to other steels? Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% it's relatively corrosion-resistant. The ESEE had significant edge damage while the MagnaCut knife did not. This isnt exactly how steel works; different properties are difficult to increase without affecting something else. it seems like all the pieces are in place to develop an algorithm for this. Now that we know what each factor represents, we can see how the steels rank against one another. CPM 10V But I think it would have much higher toughness than any of the steels on the chart. Ah ok that wasnt mentioned. More expensive powder metallurgy steels in this category include M390, CPM-S35VN, Elmax, CTS-XHP, CPM-S30V, and CPM-154. In nitrogen steels, nitrogen is used as the iron-hardener instead of carbon, thus limiting the possibility of rusting. However, it falls behind the Bohler steel in corrosion resistance. A Japanese powder steel, ZDP-189 is essentially the polar opposite of 3V its uber-hard instead of uber-tough. And a label: AEB-L. For example, Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all nearly identical and indistinguishable in practice. Theres still a lot of misinformation being pushed by influencers especially in knife steel rankings. The definition of a quality knife differs among users because of varied needs, but there are basic properties that every quality knife must have. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . Available in Kershaw knives (as of 2012) and in other . I have a few examples below for steels that I have ranges of hardness tested for both toughness and edge retention. If you are looking for a high-end knife on a budget, the varieties of both steel will serve you. Vancron would work well in a kitchen knife. Spyderco has produced several production knives with Maxamet, and the steel debuted on the ZT0888. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. The best scenario is when the steel, heat treatment, and geometry are selected for the knife and the use. AEB-L and 14C28N also have moderate edge retention though of course much lower than vanadium-alloyed powder metallurgy steels like S30V or M390. However, this edge retention comes at the cost of sharpening ease for D2. I am particularly interested in researching knife steel, knife properties, and brands. : knife a with a toughness of 5 and an angle of 20 degrees will perform as well in edge retention as knife b with a toughness of 3 and an angle of 15 degrees. does 1.4116 deserve the title of title of ultimate trash steel? D2 steel is a ordinary tool steel and knife steel. Another important caveat before we get to the ratings are that these are for the steel only. The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, which include chromium carbides. Its hard enough, tough enough, and stain-resistant enough. Here, youll learn the different factors that go into each steel, ratings for a wide variety of steel alloys, and youll get some recommendations for types of knives different types of steel work well for. But SM100 is not widely available, hard to heat treat and grind, and exceptionally expensive. Now that is power planer blades, but the principle stands, less carbon and alloy isnt the best for wood working and Id use a steel like 26C3 (1.25% C .30%Cr) for my hand tools and temper them to around 62 hard and use the best angle for wood shaving, not the best angle for cutting rope.
14C28N Vs 440C Knife - edcTopic.com